Historian Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg stated “I am convinced that the Roman Empire never disappeared but was conveniently continued in the Roman Catholic church.” For those who follow my social networks you know that I recently got back from Paris and Strasbourg. Count Christian d’ Andlau Hombourg read four of my books and invited me to Paris and Alsace. I interviewed him for my blog on blogactiv, the blogging portal of Euractiv, which is a European Union policy website. In addition, I visited churches with Count d’Andlau. The entire interview follows my commentary.
While my interview was for the secular market, my Evangelical audience will want to know its relation to prophecy. Actually quite a bit. Part of the information I learned inspired my recent article on the Lion of Bashan and why it is a title for the Antichrist. But first, a little more about Christian d’Andlau.
Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourg
Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourg is a Lawyer, historian, financier and French politician. Currently he is President of the Federalist Party in Alsace. He also holds the Presidency of the Strasbourg jurisdiction of Paneurope where he is in permanent contact with the European institutions in Strasbourg: the European Parliament, the Council of Europe and the military Eurocorps. He was Paneuropa’s former secretary general under Archduke Otto Von Hapsburg, when he was alive. This was not by chance.
Andlau Family Genealogy Traces to Merovingian Dynasty
Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourgh represents the oldest noble family in Alsace with a genealogy going as far back as the Merovingian dynasty in the 6th century. The Andlau family traces its ancestry to Ansbert who used to sign his official letters with “Frankish prince of senatorial origin” after his name because his mother was from the Roman Senatorial Ferreoli family in Arles. He was the governor of Metz, the capital city of the Frankish kingdom of Austrasia. In 548, he married Blithilde, the daughter of king Clothaire I, the Old, King of the Franks. the son of Clovis I the Great, King of the Franks.
Christian d’Andlau’s Notable Descendants
Among Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourg’s descendants are Sainte Richardis, the wife of Emperor Charles III the Fat, the great grandson of Charlemagne . Twelve European royal families’ descend from Lazarus von Andlau and are his cousins. This includes Prince Charles of England whose genealogy connects with Lazarus von Andlau fourteen generations earlier in the XVth century.
Link to Mount Saint Odile in Alsace
All of them have a common link with Mount Saint Odile in Alsace through their ancestry with the Dukes of Alsace of which his family is the closest remaining male branch. From his American mother his lineages include John Quincy Adams, Albert Gallatin and General Ebenezer Stevens Many politicians, soldiers, prelates and saints are among Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourg’s ancestors.
Otto von Hapsburg introduces Christian d’Andlau to PanEuropean Movement
It was Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourg’s good friend Archduke Otto Von Hapsburg who introduced him to Paneuropa and became his mentor. Hapsburg who served as both President and Vice President of the International Pan European Union served in the EU Parliament for 20 years from 1979 to 1999. Considered an EU Architect, he is most noted for his role in the Revolutions of 1989 and providing his support for the membership of the central and eastern European countries.
Bible Prophecy Commentary on the Interview
The Church of God and Armstrongism, which writes on Bible Prophecy wrote a good deal on the Hapsburg empire and named Otto Von Hapsburg as a possible King of the North, or Antichrist. In part because of the Hapsburg’s ensuring the Catholic Church governing the Holy Roman Empire. As no surprise they mention secret sects. The writings get so bazaar in their analysis that they read like the author was abusing psychedelic drugs when writing them. Then of course the Hapsburg’s make it into the writings of conspiracy theorists. As did Count Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, the founder of PanEuropa, which Otto Von Hapsburg took the riens of after his death.
What is Correct?
The writer’s incorrectly interpret Count Koudenhove-Kalergi’s aims and highlight his freemason membership, and turn into a conspiracy the funding of his Paneuropa, which you will read below. They are correct in alining the Whore of Babylon riding the beast with the Hapsburg’s contribution. The Hapsburg’s ensured that the Catholic church would have its influence of power over Europe in the days of the Holy Roman Empire on into Revived Roman Empire.
During the course of my interview it became apparent that the Archduke Otto Von Hapsburg turned Panuropa into a Catholic organization to have influence over the evolving European Union. Both of his parents were devout Catholics. The Catholic church canonized his father a Saint. The Archduke followed in their footsteps. I have written about the Catholic churches influence in the forming European Union through its founders. This fulfills the Whore of Babylon prediction of Revelation 17.
I was unaware that PanEuropa became the most Catholic of the European Unity movements. PanEuropa is also responsible for bringing in the Eastern block nations into the European Union. These contributed to the expanded EU’s empire that now comprised of many more nations. This actually helps fulfill Bible Prophecy because the Antichrist’s reign and empire will include many nations.
Bible Prophecy Writers Put Groups and People into Molds
In my time spending with the Count and through our many discussions I was able to learn how the political realm functions at its highest ranks. Many misconceptions and erronious conspiracy theories exist. Prophecy writer’s like to lump people together as if they came out of a mold. These individuals are unique with their own sets of views that can go around the board. One does not agree or fully agree with the other. By putting people in molds and groups we dehumanize them, which frankly is against the teachings of Christ.
While some truth exists of what some Bible Prophecy teachers teach on the topic, they grossly exagerate a good deal of their information . It is also not what Bible Prophecy teaches as to how the events come about. No conspiracy will bring the Antichrist’s rise to power.
Yes, there are the extremely wealthy family’s and persons who try to steer politics by their funding of political partys, causes and figures. There are also groups that those within political ranks join to network with one another. The Freemasons, Illuminati, Bilderbergers, Council on Foriegn Relations, Trilateral Commission and more. But, that is the extent of it.
You will read below in the interview the truth of Count Coudenhove-Kalergi, the perfect fodder for conspiracy theorists. The events of the day are in God’s hands and according to His will, not in mans, which conspirator’s teach. George Soros provides a perfect example, with all of his money funding so many political partys, groups and politicians, and his support of Hillary Clinton, she lost the US election.
End Time Bible Prophecy’s Fulfillment Spans Centurys Not Just the last 75 years.
In writing on the end times and reporting on the recent major events such as the formation of the nation of Israel and the EU, we get tunnel vision. After my interview and learning more of the history of Europe and France, End Time Bible Prophecy has been unfolding since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The Knights Templars contribution to end time Prophecy
While with the Count I learned a bit more about the Templars. Their symbols decorate the abbatial church he showed me. The Catholic Military Order-The Knight’s Templars existed from 1119 to about 1312 protected Jerusalem and acted as God’s instruments. No doubt God used them in 1177 in the victory against Saladin’s army of more than 26,000 soldier’s. If Saladin succeeded in defeating the Templars Israel would have become an Islamic nation.
We don’t think of the Templars as contributing to end time prophecy. Many teachers only focused on the days since Israel became a nation. Yet this provides clarity as to why the New Testament refers to its days as the last days. The resurrection of Jesus Christ launched them. While culminating in our era, all events since the death and resurrection of Jesus dominoed into the events of our day.
The Catholic Church launched and then demonized the Templars over their greed and to this day have not exhonorated them. A tragic end for their great contribution in helping preserve the Holy Land and giving their lives for it.
The Whore of Babylon and Babylonian gods imprint more recent French History
When we think of the anicent gods, we envision their ending with the Empires that gave rise to them. On the contrary, evan as late as 1682 at the Palace of Versailles, Louis XIV modeled and named his State Apartments on the gods of Greece and Rome. The names are as follows:
The Hercules Room, The Venus Room, Diana Room, The Mars Room, The Mercury Room, The Apollo Room, The Hall of Plenty.
Note the book of Acts mentions the goddess Diana. Also at Versailles is a sculpture of Laocoon the Trojan priest which also adorned the palace of Titus .You also see the chimera’s or ancient Greece and Egypt. The popes had embraced the ancient gods evidenced by their collections at the Vatican museum, along with Europe’s later kings.
I had no idea idolatry left such a detailed imprint with symbols literally everywhere. They even mark the European Union Parliament. Thus revealing the profound accuracy of Revelation 17 and 18. In addition that the pagan symbols are everywhere in this world, also as the Bible teaches in its doctrines on the world and the Christian separating from it.
The French Revolution
The Peace of Westphalia of 1648, which ended the 30 year war ushered in the beginning of the nation state. Nation state formation reached their peak in the 18 and 1900’s. This led to the birth of the nation Israel, a major prophetic event. Adding to the impetus of the nation state was the French Revolution. Evidence of the French Revolution of 1789 to 1799 is all over France. It ended the rule of the monarchies. This major prophetic event helped move the world into the nation state geopolitical order.
The Count experienced its effects as the French Revolutionary’s nearly extreminated his family.
World War 1 and World War I- lent to more Bible Prophecy News
Several wars took place between France and Germany during the first and second world war. Count Christian d’ Andlau recited the battles that took place in the Vosgues Mountains as we were driving from Paris to Strasbourg. Seeing for myself drove home the impact these wars had on France that led to the forming of the European Union. Another major Bible Prophecy event, thus the first and second world war also fulfilled Bible Prophecy news. We can also add Eziekiel’s vision of dry bones as representing the birth of the nation Israel after over 2000 years.
I also came to learn why Strasbourg, the seat of the European Union Parliament became its location. Is stands as a symbolic city of its role several times in the peace between France and Germany.
The Tribe of Dan in France
Count Christian d’Andlau took me to the churches in Alsace that prove that the tribe of Dan was in France. Their presence in Europe leads to the fulfillment of the Antichrist rising from the Revived Roman Empire. Because we know that he rises from the Tribe of Dan.
The Roman Empire Never Disappeared
In my book I quoted a theologian who stated that according to the book of Daniel and the Revelation the Roman Empire is viewed as never having fully passed out of history. Count Christian d’ Andlau Hombourg stated to me, “I am convinced that the Roman Empire never disappeared but was conveniently continued in the Roman Catholic church.” Here he confirmed what some theolgians confirmed the book of Daniel depicted and predicted during the riegn of Nebudchadnezzar King of Babylon.
You see this not only through history, but in the Royal Orders and orders of Chivalry of which the Count is a part. In addition, it acted through Paneuropa, through its devout Catholic President and other loyal Catholics to form and evolve the European Union with a Catholic vision and ideals. The brotherhood of man, peace on earth and all that Catholism believes possible.
In Nature is no waste-a pattern for Prophecy as well
The food chain provides a perfect example of how in nature exists no such thing as waste. In our lives, all events that occur are never wasted but help us later in some way. Historical events follow the same pattern. They all lead to prophetic fulfillment. These truths are what I gained from my time in France, and all I learned in my interview with the Count. Thus this commentary ends.
Below you will find the entire interview, broken up by articles and topics of my interview with Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg. These led to the above conclusions and also provide some excellent history and facts on the European Union.
PanEuropa’s Historical Contributions to the European Union
There exists within the European Union a discrepancy on who is the father of the European Union. Historians solve the issue by referring to Kalergi as the grandfather of the European Union and Jean Monnet as its father. Some still claim Kalergi over Monnet as the EU’s true father. The fact is that Count Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi founded PanEuropa in 1923 and the think-tank continues to influence the forming European Union to this day. PanEuropa unlike the European Federalists or the European Movement maintains a low profile. A simple website bearing little information represents the group. Yet Pan Europa’s contribution to the European Union’s evolution has been significant, which this interview reveals.
Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg
Who better to provide PanEuropa’s details than lawyer, historian, financier and French politician Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg. Formerly PanEuropa’s Secretary General, he currently holds the Presidency of the Strasbourg jurisdiction of Paneurope. This keeps him in permanent contact with the European institutions in Strasbourg. These include the European Parliament, the Council of Europe and the military Eurocorps. He also is the President of the Federalist Party in Alsace.
Otto Von Habsburg-EU Architect
It was Count Christian d’ Andlau-Hombourg’s good friend and mentor Archduke Otto Von Hapsburg who invited him to join Paneuropa to serve as its Secretary General. Hapsburg who served as both President and Vice President of the International Pan European Union served in the EU Parliament for 20 years from 1979 to 1999. Considered an EU Architect, he is most noted for his role in the Revolutions of 1989 and providing his support for the membership of the central and eastern European countries and more that this interview reveals.
You’ve explained to me that it was Otto Von Habsburg who introduced you to Paneuropa what appealed to you for you to join and take such a leading role?
First of all I’ve always been attracted to the European idea because my family has always been European. I have ancestry all around Europe. But ,when Otto von Habsburg asked me to take some responsibilities I could only accept it because my family and myself have nothing to refuse to the Hapsburg family who has saved us at least twice in history.
The First Time the Hapsburg’s saved the Andlau’s
The first time was during the 13th century. There was a terrible inter reign after the death of Emperor Frederick II of Hohenstaufen: who was Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire-Holy German Roman Empire. That was in 1250. This inter reign lasted a quarter of a century until 1275. The bishops of Strasburg tried to take over Alsace and eliminate all the members of the nobility who would take sides with the Emperor. My family was almost annihilated. The bishops destroyed several of our castles. We survived thanks to Rudolf Von Hapsburg who became the king of Rome. We took sides with him. Thanks to this support my family was saved and we could build other castles and survive until today.
The Second Time in History the Hapsburg’s Saved the Andlau’s
The second time that the Hapsburg’s saved my ancestors was during the French Revolution. My ancestor took sides with the Prince of Conde in the Royal Army and the Revolution was a success. They lost so my ancestors retired in Vienna under the protection of the Hapsburg’s. This is why we can’t refuse anything to this family.
Well that’s wonderful it sounds like there’s a lot of gratitude.
So when he had asked you so that’s when you first joined and obviously took a leading role, its pretty impressive that you were under the Archduke himself in such a leading European movement.
The founder Count Richard Von Coudenhove-Kalergi is considered the grandfather of the European Union. The EU anthem and Europe Day were his proposals but he is not usually mentioned in the list of the EU’s founding fathers. Why is this?
Why is that so? Because I think that it is because he can easily be used by those who are trying to develop some conspiration theories for several reasons.
First he was the son of an Austrian Diplomat who had married a Japanese [woman] when he was a diplomat in Japan at the beginning of this 20th century. Richard Von Coudenhove Kalergi was married three times. Twice with Jewish women and once only with a Christian and he was a Freemason.
American Freemasons Finance PanEuropa
Since the beginning he had been helped by the Freemasons because he was a member of a Masonic Lodge in Vienna. In 1923 he told members of his Masonic Lodge that he had a Pan European project to stop and avoid any other world war. The first that had just ended some five years earlier and killed millions of Europeans with no reason all. It was a very stupid war, this war and to avoid that in the future he thought that a pan European Union should be created. He asked for some support of members of his lodge in Like Germany [Austria was] paying war damages very heavy war damages to France and to other countries.
Germany and Austria were paying very very expensive war damages they couldn’t help him financially. They sent him to the American Freemasons who financed his Pan-European Movement from the beginning from 1925 until 1972 when he retired.
They financed for that many years?
Count Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi Almost Succeeds
Yes, and meanwhile he had almost succeeded with a Pan European Union and in the 20s in the 2-‘s of the 20th century. He had some very prestigious presidents for each branch of the pan European Union in almost all the countries of Europe. He had either prime ministers, heads of states or foreign ministers as the presidents of his different branches. For instance in France it was the famous Aristide Briand who was the minister of foreign affairs in Austria to the Prime Minister in Germany also etc, etc.
1929 Crash Ends Kalergi’s Success
He had almost succeeded then the crash of 1929 put an end to his success. Shortly after four years later Adolf Hitler came to power. Adolf Hitler wanted a Europe a European Union but not the European Union of Coudenhove Kalergi. He wanted a European Union with Germany as the boss of that Union and not based on equality of the nations. So Coudenhove Kalergi had to take refuge in America. He went to Washington DC and became an aide and the counselor to President Franklin Roosevelt.
Count Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi became Conspiracy Theorist’s Target
So you have a man who is a Freemason. Who had a Japanese mother who was married twice to Jewish women and was working for the OSS: the Organization of Special Services. This organization that give gave birth to the CIA-Central Intelligence Agency. Here you have a lot of material for the conspiration theorists. On top of that himself he wrote a book he had written around 1925 which has never been translated in any other language than German. In German the title was “Praktischer Idealismus”,which means in English practical idealism.
In this “Praktischer Idealismus” book he wrote that in order to put an end to nationalism in Europe mixed marriages should be encouraged.[He wrote] not only between the France and the German or the British but also with other immigrants from North Africa etc. So you imagine the subject today with the immigration issue. Also he wrote that the European aristocracy had been had been destroyed and had lost their power because of the First World War and that it ought to be replaced by another aristocracy. The only one he could imagine was the Jewish Aristocracy. So here you have a lot of material for conspiration theorists but it is completely open. This is this is not hidden.
The Kalergi-Conspiracy Theory Myth
There is no conspiracy because he wrote all this in his books and it was published and it was in the newspapers. So the Eurocrats who are organizing the European publicity and lets say propaganda. Its not a negative word propaganda. They prefer to favor the memory of some inconspicuous European founder like the very Roman Catholic Robert Schumann or the more inconspicuous Jean Monnet. This is in my opinion the reason why Count Richard Coudenhove Kalergi and his PanEuropean Union are not so much publicized now a days. Excuse me for this long message.
That’s a really good point. Some of what’s on the internet is just it’s off the wall because it’s taking something that he stated and just blowing it in such another direction. Its not what he’s actually stated.
What he had in mind and where they’ve come with some of these
ideas , I don’t have a clue but..
He wrote what I told you but the conspirations are exaggerated.
Yes that a good word.
Because he didn’t write it as clearly as I just said. But it was it was said. It was written, but it was something more in his mind. It was something like a prophecy than something like a conspiracy. There was no conspiracy. Those things happened and because it happened that way.
What was the path of pan Europa? How does it differ from the European movement? What path did it take versus the European movement or are they the same?
It is the least visible along with the European Movement -European Federalists. You don’t really hear of pan Europa. So on top of that not only what path did it take but why is PanEuropa the least visible?
If you can explain the path that it did take and its contribution to the Europe of today.
As I had told you Richard Coudenhove Kalergi retired in 1972. He chose as a successor the Archduke Otto Von Habsburg-Lorraine whom he had met during the Second World War in Washington DC. [This is] because Otto Von Hapsburg was another aid and counselor of President Franklin Roosevelt. He had taken refuge in America. [Hapsburg] was a student when the war broke out –a student in Berlin. He was invited by Adolf Hitler to meet with him. [And] he refused to meet with Hitler and said openly to his friends and maybe to journalists I think so that he would never shake hands with Mr. Hitler. So Hitler tried to catch him and send his Gestapo behind him. Otto Von Habsburg just managed to get out of Germany through Belgium and then from Belgium to America.
Otto Von Hapsburg’s Deep Catholic Roots
When he took over the pan European Union in 1972 after Richard Coudenhove Kalergi, he gave another turn philosophical turn to this think- tank. Hapsburg gave a more Roman Catholic character to it. Otto Von Hapsburg wasn’t a Freemason. He was a practicing and believing and faithful Roman Catholic. So he transformed the Pan-European movement into a Roman Catholic one- I must say.
So pan Europa has more of a Catholic influence along the lines of the Catholic Church whereas the Federalists…
And the European movement…?
Were probably more mixed between atheists agnostics and other faiths.
No and more, more Roman Catholic than any other European movement as far as I know. At least since Otto Von Hapsburg took over in 1972. You know the Catholic Church recognized his father as a saint a couple of years ago.
Empress Zita-A Practicing Catholic
Officially, and I can tell you that his mother prince the Empress Zita would visit my great-grandparents in Alsace– after the death of her husband the Emperor Charles. I remember my grandparents telling the story of Empress Zita who was visiting them in Alsace before Easter. She arrived a couple of days before Easter.
The maid came to my grandmother and said the Empress the Empress did not sleep in her bed last night. My grandmother said, What do you mean?” She said to her, “Nobody touched her bed last night. “ It’s so strange.” My grandmother asked the Empress when she saw her later that day, she asked the Empress, “Did you sleep well last night, was your bed comfortable Were you not too cold in your room?” The Empress said to my grandmother, “No, no I did not sleep in my bed because on the Holy Friday I’m sleeping on the Floor. So I slept on the floor, I just slept on the floor and I’ve been doing this for years.”
CSU-Catholic Political Party
So those two persons were Otto Von Hapsburg’s parents. You can imagine that he gave every Roman Catholic turn to his think- tank. When he was elected to the European Parliament he was elected in this very Catholic political party called CSU- Christian Social Democrats in Germany. And even then, even this Christian political party thought that the Pan-European Movement was a bit too Roman Catholic for their taste.
PanEuropa Too Catholic
I don’t know if it’s if it’s reality or if it’s legend, but I’ve heard this story several times at one time there were two candidates in this party. Members of the Pan European Union and the CSU leaders said no no two would be too much. We want only one of you. So also for this reason and be it for another reason the Pan-European think- tank is not so much publicized. Because you know, Roman Catholicism is not so politically correct today. Especially in countries like France where you have a law since 1905 separating the state from the church. Everything religious in France is not so popular. For instance ten years ago or more or twelve years ago it was a question of a European Constitution. It was also the question of writing in this project of European institution the Christian roots of Europe. [And] it was refused finally. Refused because president Jacques Chirac president of the French Republic insisted that this be retired from the project. No mention of religion. You see it’s not politically correct in France
Another reason why this think-tank is not so popular is that its main activity was in the Ex republics behind that had been behind the Iron Curtain. We’ve helped these countries to become members of the European Union. Especially countries like Slovakia, Slovenia in the ex-Yugoslav republics and also Croatia. Countries like that were very much helped to enter the European Union.
Enlarging Vs. Deepening
There are many people in the European Union who think that it should not be enlarged to too much. Because if we are too many countries within , you have you have some rich countries and you have some some poor countries. The rich must pay for the poor and maybe the rich are not rich enough to have to pay for the poor. Some people like Mr. President Giscard d’Estaing, whose father by the way was a secretary, a personal secretary to Count Richard Coudenhove Kalergi in the years 20, 1920 and 1930, but that’s another story. President Giscard d’Estaing, ex – French President and some others think that we ought to create a smaller club of ten strong European nations within the European Union to give more impetus to the Union and to strengthen the euro currency.
Better to have them in the European Union
So were not too fashionable. Because we have always said that if the European Union does not accept those countries especially countries from the ex Yugoslavia, those countries would be very quickly seduced either by the Russian Federation or by the Turks. In the Pan-European we prefer to see these countries even if they are not 100% democratic and satisfying our European standards, to have them within our Union than without and as enemies as potential this is also not so politically correct in in the European Union.
So based on what you’ve explained it sounds as if the Federalists, the European movement was more the northern European countries, southern European countries and Pan Europa went into the Eastern Bloc nations and helped those nations come aboard as well as working within those nations.So that’s a significant contribution. While one movement sounds as if it’s working on one end of the European Union, PanEuropa is working on the other end. Would you say that’s correct?
In what way does pan Europa work? I know that you’re part of a working group. I know that you work with the European Union within the European Parliament and the European
Institutions, can you explain the way the think tank works and how you work? How Paneuropa works within the EU to help it form to help it move forward along the lines of Paneuropa’s vision?
The Practical Direction of Paneuropa
The main direction: one is practical and the other is more theoretical. On the on the practical side as I told you Pan Europa helped those countries completely to comply with the legal requirements of the European Union’s membership. For instance the Archduke Otto Von Habsburg as early as1989 organized a picnic Party and in Hungary, very close to the Austrian border in a place called Sopron – to which 5,000 people were attending. Almost as Christ did once with his miracles. And there’s 5,000 people after the people decided not to go back home in Hungary in their homes. But they decided to follow the Archduke who is pressing the border to go back to Austria. That was the first opening in the iron curtain.
The Archduke had never stopped helping these people to regain their freedom. So after that he went to Slovenia and spoke to the Slovenians and encouraged them to declare their independence from the Yugoslav Republic. Even after he had Retired, we have continued to help those ex-Yugoslavia republic’s to prepare and present their candidacy to the European Union. This is the practical.
The Theoretical Direction of Paneuropa
On the theoretical, we would organize at least once per month during the plenary assembly in Strasbourg that takes place once every month in Strasbourg. The plenary assembly, the conference to which we would invite an important European personality- usually foreign ministers most of the time. But also sometimes other experts. [It] could be a expert on a military issue. It could be an expert on a financial issue or on a legal issue or some high-ranking clerics of the Roman Catholic Church to help them pass through their messages to the members of the European Parliament You would call them representatives in the United States of America.
It was a good opportunity for us to communicate our point of view to all the members of the European Parliament who would accept to come to our conferences. Our conferences were organized by the European popular party EPP but all the members of the European Parliament were invited to the conference. And our guests would talk and answer all the questions for at least one hour every month. We have been doing that for years. That’s what our working group is about. And I have the honor to be the President of the branch in Alsace. I used to be secretary-general for two and half years, but I’m not anymore but I’m still here in Strasbourg and I’m at all the Plenary sessions participating in this activity.
Yes, no doubt while Pan Europa’s working group’s conferences aids the EU in hearing the voice of its citizens it also keeps the MEP’s informed, which lends to the effectiveness of their decision making. I can see how that would have a significant influence doing its part as the European Union has moved forward and continues to move forward.
In the European Union the European Parliament, one of its main institutions has two buildings and locations where its sessions are held. In 1992 at the Edinburgh European Council, Member State’s governments decided that the Parliament should have its seat in Strasbourg for its 12 monthly part-sessions including the session at which the annual EU budget is taken. The additional part-sessions would be held in Brussels. The seat of the Parliament was decided in Article 341 TFEU (Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union).
The Single Seat Campaign
The Single Seat campaign to eliminate the European Parliament Seat in Strasbourg began in 2007 after the introduction of the Lisbon Treaty. It started with an online petition that gained 1.27 million signatures from EU citizens. Their idea was that all of the main EU buildings are in Brussels and the Parliament’s main seat should be as well. They point out that it was too costly to do the travel and is also a waste of valuable time each month.
In 2015 a working group made up of MEPs and university professors conducted a study that countered the Single Seat’s campaign and provided facts that back up Strasbourg as being the place for the single seat and to eliminate Brussels. They called their report “The Seat -Strasbourg.”
If the change were to occur, it would need a treaty change and for this France’s approval. The idea has been debated since and continues with each side fighting for their position.
Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg of Alsace
There is no one more suitable to question on the topic of the Strasbourg seat than Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg, whose family name is all over Alsace. A 16th century family castle is his residence there. Royal crests decorate the tombstones or graves of his relatives located around the family chapel. His vast vineyards make up the quaint Alsatian landscape. His ancestor’s are represented in the Abbatial churches in Alsace, including at Mont St. Odile.
As a child the Count’s parents frequently took him to the Au Crocodile restaurant in Strasbourg which would later be frequented by EU founding father Alterio Spinelli. Spinelli founded the Crocodile Club in 1980, a year after the Parliament’s direct elections. The club published a news letter, called “Crocodile,” which existed for well over a decade and acted as a briefing of the discussions and topics at the highest levels within the evolving European Communities at that time.
Driving Otto Von Hapsburg to EU Parliament
Count Christian d’ Andlau remembers as a teenager driving Archduke Otto Von Hapsburg to the European Parliament after he stayed the night with his grandfather. In the car he joked to the young Count how German reunification occurred because of his deliberate omissions when he acted as translator between Francois Mitterrand and Helmut Kohl.
Christian d’Andlau historian
Count Christian d’Andlau along with being a member of the French Aristocracy is a historian and lawyer who graduated Strasbourg University. He is also a financier and a French politician. Formerly PanEuropa’s Secretary General, he currently holds the Presidency of the Strasbourg jurisdiction of Paneurope. This keeps him in permanent contact with the European institutions in Strasbourg. These include the European Parliament, the Council of Europe and the military Eurocorps. He also is currently the President of the Federalist Party in Alsace.
I know that Strasbourg is dear to your Heart
Yes it is
Strasbourg is dear to your heart and you have a very good argument for Strasbourg remaining the Seat of the European Parliament.
And if you would like to explain your argument as to why it should remain the seat of the European Parliament versus moving it to Brussels.
Thank you for asking this question because I like it. First of all yes as you said Strasbourg is dear to my heart because I was born here. But its not the main reason. If it was only a chauvinistic reason your question or my answer would not be so valuable. But there are some other objective and philosophical reasons. First the idea of Strasbourg being a center [for]the European Union was [from] Sir Winston Churchill.
Winston Churchill decided on Strasbourg
Churchill strangely enough. He is the man who had the idea of the Council of Europe and of having the Council of Europe in Strasbourg.
Churchill understood that if we didn’t want a third war between France and Germany and the rest of Europe France and Germany had to reconcile. If France and Germany could reconcile then the peace will have more chances to be respected in Europe. If one city was symbolic of the German and French peace; this city could only be Strasburg. Because Strasbourg has always been prey for the French and for the Germans; not only Strasbourg but all of Alsace. Strasbourg is the main city in Alsace.
France and Germany’s Long History of Wars
So the Germans and the French have fought at least four wars. At least four wars around Strasbourg and Alsace; first during the Thirty Years War in the 17th
century between 1618 and 1648 that’s when Alsace became French. It used to be part of the Holy Roman German Empire but it became French after this war. Then again it became German in 1870. The Germans beat the French in 1870 Alsace became German again.
In 1918 Germany lost the First World War and Strasbourg and Alsace became French again. Then in 1939 Hitler invaded Alsace and annexed Alsace in 1940 as a part of Germany again. Alsace and Strasbourg were conquered again by the French in 1944-45. Because the French General Leclerc made an oath in Kufa North Africa during the Second World War. His oath was we shall not stop fighting this war until the French flag flies on the top of the cathedral in Strasbourg. And he did it. And after all these wars General DeGaulle managed to shake hands with the German Chancellor Adenauer. It was a reconciliation and that’s very symbolic and very important.
The Powers Must Be Separate
Secondly on a legal ground if you want to have institutional democracy, if you want to have democracy within the institutions we must follow Alexis de Tocqueville point of view. Alexei de Tocqueville wrote a book a famous book for the French called La Democratie en Amerique.The Democracy in America In this book he explains how the United States of America have been built around this idea of democracy. And one of his main ideas is that the powers must be separate. Today all the lawyers know that the power is separated. This is the first thing that you learn at Law school.
In constitutional law you learn that in democracies the powers are separated between the executive power, the Parliament whose making the laws and the Judicial power that must be independent.
The European Union has also separated its powers. The European Court of Justice is in Luxembourg. [While] the European Court of Human Rights is in Strasbourg. [And] the European Commission is in Brussels. [Finally] the European Council is meeting in Brussels. But, with the European Parliament we have a problem. Because legally and according to the treaties there is only one European Parliament and one seat of the European Parliament and that seat is Strasbourg..
Strasbourg is a Provincial City, Brussels-A Capital City
That’s the theory. In practice Brussels, in Belgium has better transportations than Strasbourg; better airports. Its more accessible-first. Its really a capital city. While Strasbourg is dear to my heart except for the fact it has a very beautiful cathedral, a very respected University, Strasbourg is still a rather provincial city in Europe. We have a little bit more than 600 thousand inhabitants in Strasbourg. We have a University of about 70 thousand of students but that doesn’t make Strasbourg an important city.
So the members of the European Parliament’s representatives would prefer to meet in Brussels. And for that reason they have their working groups in Brussels preparing the projects that had to be voted in Strasbourg.
The Brussels Parliament is just a building, its not the EU Parliament
So the working groups are in Brussels in what they are calling the European Parliament in Brussels which is not the European Parliament of Brussels. Its a building where the working groups are going to work and working. Its not the European Parliament and to respect the treaties they move with all the aides, secretaries and archives, documents at least once every month. Certain months they travel twice and it costs a lot of money, energy, some documents may get lost and it’s complicated to get a room in Strasbourg sometimes, for some people etcetera
Democracy is guaranteed by the separation of the EU institutions
Democracy is best guaranteed by the separation of powers. Therefore, it should be avoided that most of the European Union institutions be centralized in only one place like Brussels.
Only Lobbies Benefit from a Single Location
The present situation is most profitable to the lobbies who can easily meet in Brussels, not only the members of the Commission and the members of NATO but also all the Members (ie. representatives) of the European Parliament ; but the lobbies usually represent private financial interests, not democracy.
It would be best that the European Commission (ie. the executive power) be alone in Brussels, the European Court of Justice (ie. the Judicial power) in Luxembourg, and the legislative power (ie. the complete European Parliament with its representatives, plenary sessions, working groups AND civil servants administration) exclusively in Strasbourg. Same thing for the other European institutions : the European Central bank in Frankfurt, the FRONTEX in Warsaw, etc.
After touring the EU Parliament building with Count Christian d’Andlau and seeing with my own eyes- the Louise Weiss building, its overbearing authoritative architecture distinguishes it from all other headquarters located in Strasbourg. It is no wonder that Jean Claude Juncker would state, “Strasbourg is like God in the Catholic Church: it is not to be questioned!”. It is as Christian d’Andlau relayed to me in another unrelated conversation the etymology of Alsace (Elsass in German) is “The Seat.”
Steve Bannon Not the First American Aiming To Steer EU Politics
Interview with Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg, historian, financier and French politician.. Formerly PanEuropa’s Secretary General, he currently holds the Presidency of the Strasbourg jurisdiction of Paneurope. He also is the President of the Federalist Party in Alsace.
Is Steve Bannon trying to create a transnational natioinalist party along the lines of the transnational federalist party that you are President of in Alsace? Before I continue to talk about Steven Bannon I want to say on the record that I am embarrassed to be an American at the moment having an American come over and try to influence European Politics in such a negative way. Bannon we know is influenced by UKIP and the different leaders within the other already established right-wing groups. Aren’t the Nationalists copying the Federalists by trying to create a transnational Nationalist Party or is something different?
No no they’re not copying us. The exact opposite to us The exact opposite but you know sometimes the opposites are meeting when…
Well when copying in the idea of uniting…
Yes, you said transnational lists.
I understand what you mean, but they’re not copying us. Everybody has the same idea. All the parties in Europe are I suppose, all of them. The idea of being transnational and French Socialist. I would like to have German Socialists, Italian Socialist, everybody but being from the same party. They had not succeeded. Even the Socialists with the work sessions, they did not succeed. But we’ve been in 19 in 2014, four years ago on a very modest level, very modest level. But we have done it now— to come back to Mr Bannon- your asking how an American influence would be received in Europe. I don’t know. I personally don’t think it’s a problem… First of all I must tell you that I’m half American. My mother was American, but I’m also half European. So I don’t see whether it was a problem.
America’s CIA financed both Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi and Jean Monnet
As I just told you two minutes ago [the] founder of Pan Europe was Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi.
He was financed by his American Freemason friends from the beginning of his think back in 1925 until he retired in 1972. Its no secret. This is not classified information. It’s declassified information that Jean Monet one of the founding fathers of Europe was a member of the Central Intelligence Agency. And the agency has declassified this document so now it’s common knowledge. I presume in the newspapers of the most serious newspapers in France and in the other European countries we have always suspected that Germany was a U.S agent but now we know.
George Soros is also a US citizen
So Mr. Bannon or Mr. George Soros are American citizens. I’m not sure if George Soros is a citizen. He is a citizen of the United Kingdom, which he is I am sure of but may be is also a U.S. citizen. Is the fact that Mr. Soros or Mr. Bannon are US citizens a problem for them to indulge in European politics? I don’t think so. I don’t think so, not especially today in the time of globalization.
Elected Officials in France from Foreign cultures
We have some people in France who are culturally more far away to the French culture. [They] are elected in France as mayors of some villages. Sometimes even mayors of some cities and [politicians] elected at the Parliament and sometimes even they become ministers. They come from foreign cultures foreign to Europe. More far away than the US so I really don’t see where the problem is. Coudenhove-Kalergi used to say that he wanted a Pan European union from San Francisco to Vladivostok. That was one of his motives from San Francisco to Vladivostok, which is nice, I like the idea.
In a Federalist Democracy the Nationalists Voice Must Be Heard
So the fact that an American Mr. Bannon comes into European politics is not shocking for me. I wouldn’t like to see him succeed and break the Union as he said that he would. But I’m very happy to see him come and to see him confederate the nationalist party’s in Europe. Because these people must have a voice. If we want to have a democratic European union we need these people, we need them. And we need to hear their voice.
Are the Federalists and Nationalists Like the 2 Party System in the US?
So then it would become an almost 2 party system like the US has. We have the Republicans and Democrats and your saying Europe would have the federalists and nationalists.
Well there’s not much difference. Excuse me, I don’t know what your political opinions are, I don’t want to hurt your own political convictions, but there is a much greater difference, a constitutional difference seen from Europe.
There’s not much difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in the USA. As it is said in French it is blanc bonnet ou bonnet blanc. But between a Federalist party like ours and Nationalist parties, like Mr. Bannon wants to confederate or federate I don’t know it’s a solid move. It’s the day or the night. Its really the opposite like the Front National in France. So we totally disagree on everything but I think that these people are sincerely democratic just as we are.
As the French philosopher Voltaire used to say Sir I totally disagree with you but I shall fight for your right to say what you want to say, I like it.
Interview with Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg, historian, financier and French politician.. Formerly PanEuropa’s Secretary General, he currently holds the Presidency of the Strasbourg jurisdiction of Paneurope. He also is the President of the Federalist Party in Alsace.
You are President of the Federalist Party in the East of France, is the party’s memberhship growing?
Well first of all the Federalist Party is something separate from the Pan European Union. It has it has no legal links with it. It has no institutional links at all. It’s another project with similar vision though.
Its a European project, but it’s not something that has come out of Paneurope’s think tank. It’s not a Pan-European think tank idea. You see federalism in France is almost a rude word because for the French the French Republic is one and undivided. And Paris the capital city is the only serious city in France. The rest of France is a desert for the French politicians and during the French Revolution. Some people because this is a tradition since the kings of France, that’s how the kings of France have built France and since the French Revolution it has it has been even more so.
Jacoban resistance to Federalism
There was a political party in France called the Girondins of the provinces. But, the Jacoban party physically executed them. Since then France has always been [considered] rude by Jacoban and all the French politicians be they Gaulists. General DeGaul was a Jacoban but he tried in 1969, General De Gaulle offered in a referendum. [He] offered the possibility for the French Republic to favor the regions of France and give some responsibilities to the regions. The French people said no to this referendum. They said no.
France is a very compact State. France does not even recognize the different nationalities within France. There are several nationalities here for instance. There are Alsatian nationalists . The Alsatian people consider themselves as a people, which is respectable. So do the people in Brittany, in the provinces in the south of France, in Gascoigne, in Languedoc, in Corsica. etc. But the French Republic doesn’t like to recognize them. They have very recently recognized a certain Corsican people. Under many conditions they’ve given them some liberties– some political liberties–to the Corsicans but not to the Alsacians. They have refused the Alsacians and they have been asking for a certain autonomy for years. Jacobins in Paris have refused from all parties; from the right wing, left wing, extreme right, extreme left or moderate right, moderate left; they all refuse. their all Jacobins.
Several countries in Europe built on federalist models
The countries around France are not built in the same way. Germany… Italy is also a Federation of different regions. In Spain their a little bit more like the French. The United Kingdom has several nationalities. They have English they the Scotts they have the Welsh and they have the Irish nationalities.
The British have accepted last year a referendum on the Scottish independence. Their were a lot of the good sports to let this referendum decide. Finally the Scots decided not to make their BREXIT from the United Kingdom and they stayed with it. This was a very democratic attitude from the United Kingdom. France refuses to behave like that. So this is why I’m telling you federalism is something considered rude in France.
Even Russia is a Federation
The other nations around France are quite ready for federalism because they’ve always they realize that within their own countries. I would even say that Russia the Russian Federation is a federation. Even before it was called the Russian Federation after the Glasnost of Mr. Gorbachev. Even when it was the Soviet Union, Soviet citizens would be a Soviet a citizen of the Soviet Union. His passport but he would be of Russian national or of Georgian nationality or of Ukrainian nationality or other nationalities within the Soviet Union. They recognize the nationalities as such which is not the case in France.
Educating the French on Federalism
And to answer your question why did I choose to participate in this Federalist adventure in France? It’s not because I’m a masochist or desperate but because I would like to participate modestly at a modest level to the gentle education of the French people to the idea of federalism. Of course I realize that I have no chance to win. I have very few chances to have members of my party elected before quite a few years but we’ve been working since 1911 to communicate.
We have created this small political party which is recognized officially. We have even helped create other parties . For instance for the European Parliament’s election in 2014, four years we had our party represented in 16 of the 28 member countries. Little by little we are progressing.
We are going to run for next year’s election at the European Parliament. I don’t think sincerely I shouldn’t say that because I’m the president of the branch in Alsace. We’ll have our list, we’ll have our candidates. We have very little chance to succeed but we will we will go forward and transmit this idea in France– the political party.
The Front National Party -Example
Take the Front National party. For the first 15 years of existence of the Front National party they wouldn’t make more than two and a half percent. Then after 15 years of existence, which we don’t have because we patterned our party seven years ago. After 15 years the Front National managed to have over 5% which is the minimum percentage to be reimbursed of your campaign expenses, [These] are very much regulated in France. You may not spend more than a certain amount of money , justify where the money comes from etcetera etcetera etcetera.
If you want to be reimbursed of what you have put on a table, you must make 5%. The Front National only managed to do that after 15 years of existence. You’ve seen The score they’ve made four years ago in the European Parliament, It was a score that stunned everybody, not only in France but also in Europe. So little by little we will push forward our idea of federalism.
Emmanuel Macron Embraced our Federalist Platform
Today in France there is a man who is planning to use our platform of 2014 for his own party next year and this is President Emanuel Macron. It surprised me six months ago, maybe more than six months ago to read the draft the project of his platform for next year’s elections to the European Parliament. It was almost verbatim the platform of my party four years ago. So I think that our pedagogic. It is working slowly, very slowly. Maybe we will not be elected, but maybe on this platform they will elect some members of Mr. Macron’s party En Marche.
Good luck to them if they can federate Europe. We will be very happy if we can do it better than them. I would prefer. I’m not sure that we have the means to do it today.
Tell me if I’m correct the way I understand it. There is many Federalist groups throughout the European Union. What your group specifically did was create the first transnational party that would go across the European Union. So actually even though that may be small; it’s huge. It sounds like it was perfect or is perfect for the time. The Federalists have been around for a long time they have a voice within the European Union through the different groups and it sounds as if the timing is really perfect for this.
Otto Von Hapsburg Claimed Credit For German Reunification
Segment of Interview with Count Christian d’Andlau Hombourg, historian, financier and French politician.. Formerly PanEuropa’s Secretary General, he currently holds the Presidency of the Strasbourg jurisdiction of Paneurope. He also is the President of the Federalist Party in Alsace.
You had mentioned to me how Otto Von Hapsburg was actually responsible for the unification of Germany
So I’d like you to share that because that is a major piece of history
Otto Von Hapsburg was joking when he told me that. It was not only a joke; it was also true. I remember him telling me one day. He would quite often come and visit my grandfather in our country house here in Alsace. My grandfather had been the first president of the European Agricultural Confederation in the 1960’s as I told you were a very European family. Otto Von Hapsburg liked my grandfather very much. He would sometimes spend the night after dinner in our country house. Now as a student I would drive him back to Strasbourg to the European Parliament where he spent his day. One day in the car he looked at me and he turned his head and said, “You know the reunification of Germany was done thanks to me.”
Meeting Between Kohl and Mitterrand
In 1991 there was a very secret meeting at the European Parliament in Strasbourg between presidents; French President Francois Mitterrand and the German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, on the subject of the German reunification. The French didn’t like that too much. They would feel more secure with two separated Germanys like for instance the Japanese may feel more secure with two separated Koreas or as neighbors. So the question of the reunification of Germany was a very geopolitical one and especially seen from France.
Otto Von Hapsburg Acts As Translator
President Francois Mitterrand did not speak one word of a foreign language except French. French was his only language he could speak. He came here to Strasbourg to meet with Helmut Kohl and tell him all the conditions he would put for an eventual reunification of Germany. Otto Von Hapsburg told me this this was so sensitive. It was such a sensitive meeting that they wouldn’t trust any official translator.
Suddenly they turned to Otto Von Hapsburg and said could you please translate for us. This is a very secret and confidential subject. They made Otto Von Hapsburg the doll matcher; the translator between German and French. He said thanks to me it completed because I did not translate to Helmut Kohl all the conditions that President Francois Mitterrand was putting on the table and I didn’t translate to Mitterrand that Kohl had said, Whether you like it or not will make it. So it was done.
That’s great, I mean that’s really great.
That was Otto Von Hapsburg He was joking but I think there might have been some truth in it.
And no one would ever have guessed or ever known so I’m glad you mentioned it during this interview. Because like I said earlier that’s a major fact in the history of the reunification
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